Puzzlebrains

So has anyone got any more thoughts on
To hint or not to hint / To hint or how to hint / To beat about the head with a blunt object (or as Scurra said he'd done with me once "this is like having a piano dropped on your head from a great height" - even though I still didn't get it straight away... )/ or blow everso lightly into a piccolo?

I think my overall feeling is that you can't generalise. It depends on who is stuck and what they are stuck on. Certainly when I'm asked for a hint it depends who has asked what I say. From previous experience some people need the smallest comment to set them on their way while others need something less cryptic.

Sometimes just being told you are on the right track is enough to make you persevere, whereas there comes a point where you are about to throw the laptop out of the window and set fire to the magazine, when you need more. (Quite a lot more)

Perhaps we should have a graded series of requests.

Check
Nudge
hint
clue
explanation.

Don't know what you're laughing at giraffe - that makes perfect sense to me

Of course, you then have the same problem of who's asking and who's hinting. I had a 'delayed action' hint given to me yesterday that popped up out of the back of my brain and blew raspberries at me as I was driving to work today (Thanks Sis) [At least I didn't have an accident ]

Then there is the picture clues that someone sent me that were totally unhelpful.... Of course the following was look it up on wiki....again unhelpful....followed by click on the picture and his name comes up....

sometimes well intended hints are just not enough, but I think it should be up to the individual to decide just how thick they are

On Lord Sinister my brain was as slow as molasses in January. Not because of the nice hints, but because I just didn't have a clue about the he bit. Even with all the above clues supplied, it took me ages to work through. I'm sure giraffe and strep were sick to death of me by the time I got that one.

I thought I'd said that his name was in the picture description somewhere. Even if I did carefully pick a picture where he was himself and not "HIM"

That you did. But like I said, I was clueless and needed the sledge hammer for that one. I'll chalk it up to popular culture. But my main point still stands. Some of us are "thicker" than others

We originally set up the helpdesk so that we could see the kind of questions people were asking, where they were getting stuck and what kind of nudges/hints were needed to help everyone on their way.

What has transpired to be the most important thing to everyone is checks.

Hints & nudges are a different issue altogether. They really do depend on the individual. Some have sailed through puzzles that others have hit big brick walls with. I expected that.

What concerns me is that some are still wary of asking me for help too often on the same puzzle. I really dont mind how often anyone comes to me- if the nudge or hint isn't good enough I need you to come back and say so-even if thats half a dozen times.

For example- without naming names- if someone locks a puzzle in another room to prevent themselves shredding it after several big hints then its getting to explanation time- and if someone has spent 3 weeks looking at a puzzle having all of the basic ingredients to solve it, thats far too long. What I dont want to happen is for anyone to be stuck and not say so.

I must re-iterate that we have no problem with members helping each other if thats what they want to do.

My being here is just another option - and it prevents the forum being filled with requests for help and those who don't know who to ask for help awaiting a reply.

I agree that at certains times throughout a puzzle different types of help is required, sometimes you need a shove other times just a 'yes that's the right way to go', or 'no, think again' is enough to carry on with the puzzle. I must admit that I have on occasions thought 'no, I won't bother Gill again' and pm'd someone else who I knew wouldn't mind helping me, but I think that being able to pm other people adds to the camaraderie and friendly atmosphere we have here.

I totally agree with you maisie. I pestered Gill quite a lot at the beginning on this issue but sometimes it is nice to pester someone else for a change, I also agree about it adding to the camaraderie. Sometimes all we need is to be told whether the line of thought is relevant or totally off beam to set us confidently on the right path. And sometimes when we can't see what it is all about we need rather more. And if I have solved a puzzle I never mind being asked for a hint/nudge/confirmation or whatever. I try not to give more information than I am asked for and would rather be asked again for more than feel I spoiled it for someone by giving away too much.

I think that's hit the nail on the head, Maisie. It does add to the camaraderie, and promote friendly exchanges. Also, sometimes it's nice not to have to admit to the person you've asked for a hint that you've got no idea what they're on about!!

I think in future, if anyone does approach me for a hint, or I approach someone else, I'll use Giraffe's grading system, and actually ask for either:
Check
Nudge
hint
clue
explanation.

And just really hope I don't need too many of the last variety!! (Which, to be honest, I did with a certain fishy puzzle).

Maybe there should be one after explanation:

WALKTHROUGH

for when even the explanation didn't make sense. I needed one of those for the first magazine. The one formerly known as issue 1.

It's a bit like Prince. Or should I say "squiggle".

katsmom wrote:But my main point still stands. Some of us are "thicker" than others

It's usually the case: Person A gets puzzle X fairly quickly but has trouble with puzzle Y, whereas person B finds puzzle Y a doddle but has difficulty with puzzle Z.

Personally I thought that Vetinari was easy, but naturally there are others who struggled with it.

Speak for yourself. I found all of them difficult. But then

But my main point still stands. Some of us are "thicker" than others

Those grading levels sound very good to me.
I'm never quite sure where "check" should come in the list, because sometimes that's enough for a hint, whereas with others it's practically the entire answer.

I agree about Walkthroughs though. I am intending to provide those on the website as the magazine solution often has to be rather brief. But I'm not altogether sure of the best way to do it (at least not in a way that doesn't involve a ton of extra work for me. No, Bunny, don't say a word... )

Why don't you leave it as it is and if anyone still can't see how to do a puzzle from the explanation in the book they could request it from either yourself or one of the other puzzlers.

Scurra, those that have finished could write the walkthroughs and send them to you for vetting / editing.

I know what you mean for checking. In general checking that what you have is right so far would tell you nothing new, but with something like Cornwallis you can give out information by accident about ones that they haven't yet found.

Scurra wrote:I agree about Walkthroughs though.... But I'm not altogether sure of the best way to do it (at least not in a way that doesn't involve a ton of extra work for me.

giraffe wrote:Scurra, those that have finished could write the walkthroughs and send them to you for vetting / editing.

*Hums* Matchmaker, Matchmaker.......

just looking at cornwallis, there was one that I would use a different term for. For that one, I needed it handed to me to get, and it wasn't until after I finished that It was explained by Scurra. A language barrier At times, the final word is not only helpful, but necessary.

This is my interpretation of the Giraffe Help Scale:

Check - confirming whether or not you're thinking along the right lines
Nudge - pointing you in the right direction if you've got sidetracked
Hint - pointing you towards what is relevant
Clue - telling you what is relevant
Explanation - telling you what is relevant and how it is relevant
Walkthrough - telling you what is relevant, how it is relevant and how to get to the solution