Today I've mostly bin...

[Scurra]

Nothing. Les Mis has some amazing music.
I do think it's a bit unfair to complain about the tone of the content, since that's hardly the fault of the musical. It's a bit like saying that you didn't like Cats because it was, well, all about felines... On the other hand, if you weren't affected by Do You Hear The People Sing? then you have no soul.

[Bunnylump]

Yes, but you have to remember that I was listening to it when it was sung excruciatingly out of tune. But in general, musicals leave me cold. They are so formulaic and deliberate. Definitely not my cup of tea. To be fair, they had worked really hard - they had an orchestra and some quite good props and costumes. The people in it put their heart and souls into it. But the whole experience left me feeling like I was missing something. And let's face it, the story IS rubbish.

And as for

It's a bit like saying that you didn't like Cats

I've never been to see Cats. That's flaming Andrew Lloyd Webber. I think I'd rather saw my arm off with a blunt spoon. Especially as it's ruining a perfectly good book by T.S. Eliot.

P.S. Waiting for the outraged retort from Scurra...

Yes, I know I have quite an unusual take on musicals. But at least I am not afraid to have a controversial opinion... Most dreadful thing I have ever seen in my life was We Will Rock You. Ben Elton should be ashamed. ALw Phantom of the Opera - good special effects, music dreadful. The only exception to this generalisation about musicals is Oliver! Which was brilliant.

[Scurra]

Oi, quoting out of context isn't fair! I didn't say "It's a bit like saying that you didn't like Cats" - I said "It's a bit like saying that you didn't like Cats because it was, well, all about felines..." I clearly wasn't saying anything about the musical qualities or otherwise of the show. I was clearly commenting on the subject matter. (Although as it happens I disagree that Les Mis is sentimental. It's surprisingly unsentimental when you think about it, although it does a good job of disguising that.)

Mind you, I notice you are prepared to judge Cats without having apparently seen or heard it, on the basis of who the music is by. At least you were prepared to see Les Mis before slagging it off. (I could say that for someone who thinks that Muse are any good, you're hardly one to talk. But I won't. )

edit: hmm. I was writing this whilst you were in the middle of editing your previous post.
No, you don't have a particularly "unusual" take on musicals. They're just not your style of music.

[Bunnylump]

I have had the misfortune of having heard quite a lot of the music from Cats. And yes is is rubbish. And I have been to see ALW's Phantom of the Opera and found the music tedious. It's just a matter of taste, isn't it?

As far as I could see, Les Miserables was a load of rubbish about unlikely relationships based on nothing whatsoever, people dying, more people dying (with no explanation of why), death and destruction, small children added in for extra sympathy factor and then more slush and nonsense at the end.

And...yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. No soul.

[Scurra]

Well don't say "I've never been to see Cats" then - that does imply not having heard any of it either. If you've heard some of it, then at least say so, even if it's to say "I have had the misfortune of having heard quite a lot of the music from Cats. And yes is is rubbish." Otherwise what happens is that when I comment, I'm the one who ends up looking silly. And I'm sure you don't want that.

But yes, music - more than many other art forms - is very much a matter of individual taste. In a sense, there's no such thing as "bad" music: just music you happen not to like. Having said that, presentation also enters into it. A bad amateur production of Les Mis (a show which isn't the easiest in the world to perform anyway) isn't going to help convert someone to its merits...

(I don't think this is the place to enter into a discussion of the flaws of all literature ever though. If you think Les Mis is comprised of unlikely relationships et al, then I can't imagine what sort of books you find remotely plausible. )

[Bunnylump]

Hearing ALW rubbish is, sadly, unavoidable since it is popular with a lot of people. I think I would have had to have have my ears plugged and my eyes blindfolded to totally avoid contact with it.

To be fair to the production I saw tonight, a lot of people were enthusiastic. One woman I spoke to said it reduced her to tears (although it nearly reduced me to tears listening to some of the harmonies a semitone out!) They got a standing ovation at the end. Personally I was gobsmacked because I though it was mind numbingly awful. The only conclusion I could reach was that some people are very easily pleased.

Bitter, twisted, bah humbug.

[Scurra]

The only conclusion I could reach was that some people are very easily pleased.

I refer the honourable lady to the comment I didn't make about Muse some moments ago.

(Ah, a silly o'clock conversation. Always the best.)

[giraffe]

I like Les Mis. (There that's me off the rabbit's Christmas card list!) The first time I saw it was an amateur production, although it was a youth production, so some quite talented youngsters in the lead roles. It is the sort of music I find stuck in my head a week later. I also saw it in London which was very good, but their barricade wasn't as good as the amateur one!

[kathlyn]

I have to agree with our purple friend here. I don't like musicals either. Have seen Le Mis in London and enjoyed the music. Have seen Cats on TV a while ago and other than a couple of pieces of music thought it was rubbish found something else to do whilst husband continued to watch. Was given a DVD of Phantom for Christmas and watched it for 10 mins and even that was too long.

There is one musical I do enjoy and that's Rocky Horror.

[Bunnylump]

I must admit that is one I would like to see, since I have heard good reports about it from someone whose judgement I would trust. And Giraffe, I wouldn't strike you from my Christmas card list, I like people who aren't afraid to have their own opinions. One of my very best friends LOVES Les Miserables, she goes to see it at every opportunity.

[Laura]

I've just been to see Matilda the Musical. Music and lyrics by Tim Minchin. Exceedingly clever. The man is a genious. A warped and twisted genius, but a genious none-the-less. I loved it because I love his songs, except that they're too offensive for me generally, and this was his music but in a medium that meant he had to keep it (relatively) clean and inoffensive. He was the absolute perfect choice to write music for a Roald Dahl story.

[tricia]

Oh Dear Bunny - i have to disagree with you
I love the musical Cats - i have seen it about 5 times. I also love Phantom, and I love les Mis, though I have to admit that when the get to the Barricade scene I do get very emotional!

In fact the first time I heard the Bring Him home , I was in my car driving to a night out. As soon as I heard the words I started to cry! I had to do some emergency repair work on the make up when I arrived. I still cannot make it throught the song without shedding a tear!

Tricia

[Bunnylump]

Good job we're all different, really, otherwise the world would be a very boring place!!

I've been out walking again. Another beautiful day. Saw the now customary Red Kites wheeling about, plus a buzzard, oh, and get this, some ALPACAS. I thought my eyes were deceiving me, but it turned out that the large house we were walking past did indeed have alpacas in the field. Enjoyed the walk (only got a bit lost!) but the mud was a bit treacherous in places - clayish, so really claggy. At one point there was no option but to be walking ankle deep in it... Still, went to the pub for some nice soup to recover afterwards for a bit.

EDIT sorry, just had to share this with you. Was looking up about alpacas on the wonderfully reliable Wikipedia, and it tells me that

Because of their preference for using a dung pile, some alpacas have been successfully house-trained

Well yes, I could see they might, but WHY would you want an alpaca in your house? Scurra?

[gill216]

but WHY would you want an alpaca in your house

Pehaps because its the latest craze? Like having vietnamese pot bellied pigs some years ago. Or even weirder. I couldn't believe my eyes when I moved into the small Newcastle village about 30 years ago. The teenagers had geese on leads and used to take them for walks!!!!!

[Wulfruna]

Just going back to Les Mis.... it's problem is that it is really too good for a 'Musical'.
To my mind it was more like watching a full-blown opera - where even the dialogue is mostly sung. There is some superb music in it, like any opera (or musical) and some rubbish as well. The story is very complicated, which doesn't help. I am amazed that amateurs would actually have the courage to try and stage it, as it must be very demanding!
I loved CATS and saw it twice - but that's partly because I love the poems and knew them well already. Lots of memorable songs. But I hated Phantom, which was mostly boring and very poor music on the whole.

If anyone is put off by the thought of operas, then I would recommend starting with La Boheme (which has a similar theme of Parisian underlife in revolutionary times) - some wonderful music, a surprising amount of comedy and of course the most tear-jerking final scene in opera.

[MBH]

I'm going to throw my hat in the musical ring and say I grew up with and have always enjoyed musicals but have NO pull towards seeing Les Mis. The title alone puts me off. Mind when I think of 'musicals' I can pick any title and 3 or 4 songs from each come springing to mind. My Fair lady / 7 Brides for 7 Brothers / The King and I / and a dozen more. If there is a tune from a show and I don't know the show - it's probably Guys & Dolls (never got that one pegged in my mind).


Later on I was introduced to Gilbert & Sullivan and enjoye the comedy aspect of their work. After saying that I've had no pull towards the more serious Operas although I probably know and enjoy the 'well known' themes.

Rocky Horror Show is briliant (seen it here at Newcastle a couple of times), and I've got to admit I did like Cats (as much for the dancing as the rest of it).

[Scurra]

I'd be surprised if you didn't know "I dreamed a dream" though, Chris. The other songs are not nearly as well known considering how successful a musical Les Mis has been (it really can't be that carp if it has been running continuously for 25 years. )

My own personal favourite is Guys and Dolls, although I like West Side Story a lot too. (And pretty much anything by Sondheim, although they mostly fall into that grey area of "not-quite-operas".)

[Looby]

Just to add my opinion to the mix. Not keen on Les Mis or Miss Saigon, adore Phantom ( but the film is nowhere as good as some of the other productions I've seen)

Sometimes generalisations can be too sweeping - like saying you don't like Shakespere because you had to learn one of his sonnets at school.

[MBH]

I'd be surprised if you didn't know "I dreamed a dream" though,

Not exactly a 'foot tapper' I only know that one as the song (and performance) that got the best reaction from a ".... got talent" judging panel - I didn't know at the time where the song was from.

Today I've bin...... getting rid of another damaged and useless tooth One by one they're escaping from my mouth and many times I've said it makes more sense to get rid of the lot but the dentist keeps convincing me to hold on to as many natural teeth as I can. That's only 6 left on the bottom deck now (not sure about the top but it looks like a dodgy piano with white and black {missing} ivories)

Got painkillers for when the numbness wears off and I've been told to 'take it easy' for a while. I've taken the day off work as annual leave in any case so they're not expecting me in.

[clvrlad]

ow.... hope you feel less sore soon