Help and feedback please

[Biscuit]

Hi all

I have been given the task at work of finding out what influences people to buy a particular product (particularly all you people in the education system). Basically we manufacture education furniture like the tray units you see in primary schools, tables, storage etc and i want to make sure we are providing what people actually need so if i knew what went on in the deciding process that could really help. Also what they would like to help them such as "how to design your library requirements" or any other area. I really want to build up our customer service but i need to know what you folks are looking for. Any thoughts from those in education or not would be a great help and really help me out at work:)

Biscuit

[Laura]

When I was running a music department therefore in charge of the budget (Not anymore - hurray!!!) I'm afraid the most boring thing was what always decided it - space. It was a case of how big does it need to be to fit in the things that I want to put in it, and how much space do I actually have. My problem was finding something to put music stands in. When folded up, they're about 5cm longer than a normal sized set of drawers.
The next consideration was cost. After that, it was whether it looked pretty - being at an all girls primary school, everything tends to be fairly bright and colourful. I always went for the brightest if there was little choice between two options.

[Biscuit]

thats great - so a space planner on the website would probably help - i know our costs are good as county tell us we are v competitive so then to sort out how it looks - would be lovely to do 3d but that is only on our design side - perhaps room layout pictures - the brigher the better . Thanks for that Laura

[giraffe]

The libraries at my kids primary schools always doubled up as something else. eg music room, entrance hall. They had units to put the books in that could be closed up and were on wheels, so they could be moved out of the way for choir practice etc. They had sort of window seat type benches to sit on in the bay windows so that the space was used to the max, and they may well have had storage for things like music stands in them.

[Bunnylump]

I don't get to choose furniiture for school - that's dealt with by the premises manager. Although some of the furnture which has been purchased for our newest block has been pretty disasterous - soft squishy upholstered chairs for the kids are all well and good but of course they pick at them and the foam ends up being pulled out. They are also too wide and too heavy to be moved easily. So I imagine next time they'll take that into consideration. So (just guessing) I'd say they are looking for
1. Good price
2. Indestructable (that kind of laminate they put on tables is a pain because kids pull it off the sides)
3. Flexible and transportable (this particularly applies to tables and chairs during exam periods).
4. Easy to clean (graffiti).

Things like cabinets need to be secure (ie lockable) for things like laptops.

Desks for computer rooms need lots of holes so all the wires can be accommodated neatly. There is NO point in having those pull-out keyboard things in secondary schools (kids would just spend the whole time fiddling with them).

Shelving is better if it has rounded corners because otherwise stupid kids end up bashing themselves.

Lab tables need to be very thick and resilient, and preferably dark coloured because they get burnt and have chemicals spilt on them.

Domestic science tables need to be heat resistant (it doesn't matter how many times you tell them they need to use a mat they don't) and easy to clean.

If someone could invent laboratory stools which didn't make that hideous scraping noise then I'd love them forever!!

And finally yes, space is very often a key consideration, especially when you have classes of up to 32 pupils (like we do because we are massively oversubscribed).

[Laura]

Ah, the joys of being at primary school! Nearly NONE of that applies at my school, except the computer wires (same in any situation) and the kids bumping into stuff. I'm so glad that generally we don't have to move stuff, or deal with graffiti and destruction. The only place we have squishy chairs is in the library (which is tiny), but they do have some beanbags in some classrooms, for when the little ones are ill and fall asleep!

[Bunnylump]

Actually the thing which annoys me more than anything on EArth with secondary schools is CHEWING GUM. Which is IMHO the world's most HATEFUL invention.

1. I find it really rude that people think it's ok to chew when they are talking to me.
2. Kids stick it under the tables.
3. All the carpets get ruined with the damned stuff.
4. I'm sick of ending up with it on my shoes / clothes.

I need a new job, don't I?

[Laura]

Hmm. In my school it's glitter that ends up everywhere. We work in different worlds, don't we????

[giraffe]

From your point 1 it sounds as if the school lets them chew gum! My friend's daughter was sent home from school for chewing gum.

[Bunnylump]

The school rules state that they SHOULDN'T chew gum, but there are certain teachers who don't challenge kids who are chewing. I always do. In fact I have been known to either refuse point blank to speak to a kid until they empty their mouth or do a stalk around the class armed with the bin, sticking it under offenders' noses and saying "spit!".

But then I don't tolerate all sorts of things which SOME teachers turn a blind eye to- eg
poor spelling
ripped or tatty books
not having equipment
not saying please and thank you or holding doors open for people.

I just think they are all basic things which need to be right. And yes, I am old and I am grumpy. But I don't think it does them any favours to let them do it.

[giraffe]

No you're right, if they think the teachers don't care, they won't care.

[clvrlad]

I don't tolerate all sorts of things which SOME teachers turn a blind eye to- eg
poor spelling

and i was just starting to like you :-p

[Bunnylump]

No I meant the teachers...

(Look away now if you don't want to be bored stupid. You've got me on my soap box!) My point is that if they don't know, fair enough. But they should be prepared to use a dictionary and at least TRY to do their best. What I don't like is the "it doesn't matter" attitude. I sometimes misspell things, but if I THINK I don't know how to spell it I'm always prepared to look it up. Well, unless I'm on here that is...

As you know I work with kids with special needs. So LOTS of them are hopeless at spelling, But I STILL think they can learn strategies to help them to be able to make a "best guess". Thing is, it's the WAY you approach it. IF you look at a kid's work and say (like some stupid teachers do)

"Look at that, you've made 6 spelling mistakes in the first 2 lines. Go and sort it out!"

that will crush all confidence and stop them from trying. However, if you make the effort to read what they've done, and first of all focus on the GOOD THINGS (imagination, varied use of language, following instructions accurately etc.) and THEN say "Now you need to make it EVEN better by..." it almost invariably produces results. It's not rocket science, this teaching thing.

Sorry, Biscuit, thread deviation...

[giraffe]

When looking round secondary schools for my children I have seen work put on display for open evening where it has a tick at the bottom and "excellent work". No other marks on it at all. This work has numerous spelling mistakes, including in a piece of Geography Escarpment spelt strangely. I can see the point in not correcting every spelling if that will detract from getting attention on mistakes of understanding the subject, but when else are they likely to learn how to spell escarpment, and how can they just ignore ALL the mistakes. It made it look like they hadn't even read the work, just put a tick on it. And as for not using red pen because it might offend someone! If green is the colour all mistakes are highlighted in surely using green pen is just as offensive.

Just to keep it off topic!

[katsmom]

How about I continue your off topic.

When I correct my students paper I have this color coding thing I do. Green for SVA, pink for articles, yellow for tenses....I have 12 different highlighters. Some papers look like a paint factory explosion. And their grades???? I never right them on the paper so they can read them. I found these wonderful black-light pens.....Makes for a good laugh for me anyway!

And my favorite color is purple ink! It's so obnoxious that it is wonderful!

[Laura]

If that was me Giraffe, and I knew it was being done to put on display, I don't think I'd correct the spellings either, especially knowing the limited time there often is for getting displays done before events like open evenings. But I would put a list on the back of the correct spellings, so that when the work is returned the information is there, but it doesn't look like a scrawl on display.

Sorry again - really off topic now, aren't we?

[giraffe]

Put me right off the school in question. These were exercise books put on display, not work on the wall.

What colour for spellings?

I never right them on the paper so they can read them

(sorry, couldn't resist!)

[Biscuit]

thanks for the feedback - very useful for me - will let you know how i get on

[Bunnylump]

Sorry back off topic again but, following on from Katsmom's comment:
I LOVE colour. It helps me to follow things and work them through logically. Consequently our work diary which I leave instructions and communications for my staff in the morning generally looks like a psychadelic nightmare. Lots of the others HATE it - one of the "level 3" teaching assistants (next grade down from me got all stroppy about me putting instructions for her in orange. I think she thought I was picking on her. So I asked her to choose a colour she liked and now she's blue and is happy. However the others lady on that same grade has fluorescent pink, and she loves it!! When I do puzzles they are all highlighted in purples and greens.

And re the display thing, Giraffe, I like to upset the teachers by pointing out all the mistakes THEY make on display work. My particular favourite was from an English teacher who had a display with a giant label NOWNS.

Oh, and that reminds me, Biscuit, another thing which I think would come into play re the furniture thing is the availability of "theme" colours. Our school has a maroon and silver theme, and they like to coordinate things like chairs and bins. They recently spent a small fortune replacing all the outside bins with maroon bins with the school logo on them. Personally I would have preferred it if they'd spent the money paying me, but hey ho.

[dramaticat]

I know nothing about the requirements for school equipment, but I'm rapidly learning what you need to survive being in a wheelchair/on crutches!